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Post by A confused parent on Feb 13, 2023 2:32:17 GMT -8
I find it incredibly confusing as to why private schools in BC are treated as if they are the same as public schools in regard to sports. The goal for sports is to include fair competition where the playing field is even and so each team can work their way to being a champion. How is the playing field fair when Private schools have access to funds that the public schools simply do not get. Kids are getting PAID coaching which means that the coaches are giving much more effort because they do not wish to lose their job as head coach, while 90 percent of public schools rely on volunteer coaching which more often then not has these coaches not giving any practice time and not giving any effort. Saint Georges St pats Vancouver Collage are all having their kids flown to other countries to compete and train with the very best... HOW? because they have a shit load of money to spend purely on their sports. If the argument is that Private schools should be in provincials then FINE let them play in the Big Tourney, BUT when it comes to the sea to sky tournament where schools are being kicked out due to a private school placing higher then them then that's simply unfair advantage.
without a doubt there is money being paid to the committee which make these types of decisions. its wrong to all the kids that cant afford to pay $40,000 a year to attend these schools and the kids who are not extremally athletic at an early age that get a scholarship from these schools. If people are not aware there is a lot and i mean A LOT of recruiting happening to these schools and if anyone doubts me then ill tell you I was one of those kids where the schools coaches approached me and recruited me to come to VC. YES IT IS WRONG, YES IT STILL HAPPENS.
I don't understand how these private schools can still get away with this. nobody understands this better then the public schools that cant find a way out of losing due to all their kids in their area getting taken away to private schools. IF YOU WANT THEM TO GET INTO PROVINCIALS AND PLAY AGAINST PUBLIC SCHOOLS THEN MAKE THEM THEIR OWN ZONE TOURNAMENT ALREADY.
they can afford to fly around and play all the other private schools in their OWN league and have their own tournament set up... ITS ABOUT TIME PEOPLE STOP LETTING THIS STUPIDITY SLIDE LIKE THIS.
Nobody can convince me that this sort of thing is fair... VSB is NOT PROTECTING THEIR KIDS AND THEIR SCHOOLS... they are simply terrible at their jobs and idiots at making decisions. public schools are even being forced out of the gyms by VSB staff and the amount of red tape just to get any kind of gym time is enormous. It makes me sick and this is the reason basketball in BC is not growing. They are killing off any public school interest in having any kind of competitive program. some schools deal with is and some dont. All I know is.... BC SCHOOL SPORTS DOESNT GIVE TWO FUCKS ABOUT THE KIDS... probably because THEIR kids go to a private school... SMDH
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Post by Laker on Feb 13, 2023 9:35:03 GMT -8
You have valid points in this argument!
The BCHSBBA follows the berthing ratio for the provincial tournament. It is suppose to follow this format at the zone level. It does not!
It has been pointed out many times in the past, but usually gets denied because the committee who administers the tournament, does not follow the protocol, because of various external factors, even to the tipping point of proposed law suits. It has been a battle for many years. The decision makers rarely deny this situation.
Noted: The VSSAA does not allow independent schools into league play ( but will allow exhibition play) It has been written into VSSAA policy. They will never allow them into league play. Therefore, the independents should be a zone within the zone! That simple.
Independents have a huge advantage of open boundaries and students can come from various areas. Where Vancouver Schools have closed boundaries.
The only way this will change is to have a wave of public parents put together a committe and lobby this situation. If you want change, it must begin with a group of parents to make it happen. It will continue on until someone takes a stance.
Good luck in you pursuit!
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Post by Coach on Feb 13, 2023 23:48:52 GMT -8
Totally agree. Thats why BC basketball sucks right now. When was the last time a BC university made top two in the country? 12years ago. All BC universities try to recruit kids from Ontario, Quebec and Alberta because BC high school basketball sucks which is contributed by BCHSBBA.
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Post by Vball on Feb 15, 2023 19:51:05 GMT -8
Don’t lump all independent schools in the same pot with what you are accusing them of. Many throughout the Province are not doing the things you are accusing the big independents from the Vancouver area of
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Post by Alacrity on Feb 16, 2023 0:32:00 GMT -8
Independent league only has 1 berth to zones for quad a atleast. If they dominate hs bball in BC so much then how come no independent team has won the provincials in the last decade (excluding st pats which is 3A)? Its also not fair to assume that these kids are only focused on athletics. Kids at the school i work at needs to have certain grades and almost flawless attendance for them to be able to play their respective sports otherwise they cant even practice. Sure they have access to better facilities but they also need to put in the work to have those privileges. As for coaching, the head coaches are mainly teachers who has to perform extra curricular activities outside of teaching since its stipulated in their contracts before they get hired and they dont get paid extra for those. Also those out of town basketball trips are not paid by the school its out of their own pocket. The school simply organizes it.
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Post by Laker on Feb 16, 2023 2:12:41 GMT -8
Just to confirm, independent will get Two berths into the quad zone tournament for Sea to Sky. They do not follow the berthing formula as per BCHSBBA. For whatever reason, this continues to occur. Independents have Open boundaries, which means students can attend those Independent schools from various places. Vancouver Schools have closed boundaries. The independent league does not play in the Vancouver League, they play in their own league. Each league has a certain number of teams , combined, will have a total number. This number then determines the number of berths to the Provincial Tournament. This year it was determined to be 2.5 berths to the Provincial Tournament.(Berthing Formula) for the Sea to Sky.quad A.
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Post by Sess(similkameen ) on Feb 16, 2023 8:31:07 GMT -8
If you think this a problem at the quad a level you should really take a look at single a. I private school can recruit top athletes from a massive area offering better resources and better education to lure top players and still keep numbers under the requirements for single a. Sure the kids have to work to keep grades up but under the conditions at a private school they get a huge advantage to do that very thing.whenever you can offer something thay public schools can not the playing field becomes unfair. This has been a joke for so long public schools really just compete with each other in single a standings.as usual if your rich you have it better . But we just keep plugging. Pretty sure sess is the last public school to win single a provs....like 20 years ago lol
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Post by coach1 on Feb 16, 2023 10:04:13 GMT -8
Not all Independent schools are the same, but most call sports co-curricular instead of public schools extra-curricular. There is an expectation at many Independent schools that you will coach or run clubs etc.. as well as students are expected to participate. For many years only one of the Independents from Vancouver ( VC or STG.) were allowed in the Provincials as the Independent berth (Unless they went to court). Now they all get to qualify through their zones. This discussion has been going on for decades it's not new, but for many years in the old AA which became AAA now AAAA many teams would boycott playing exhibition games against those teams. When you play less games and don't get invited to tournaments, it makes it less lucrative for recruits to go there.
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Post by coach1 on Feb 16, 2023 10:14:43 GMT -8
"Totally agree. Thats why BC basketball sucks right now. When was the last time a BC university made top two in the country? 12years ago. All BC universities try to recruit kids from Ontario, Quebec and Alberta because BC high school basketball sucks which is contributed by BCHSBBA"
Some years yes, some years no. Carleton dominates Usport not Ontario. Most Ontario Usports teams are actually worse than the bottom half of Canada West. There is no BCHSBBA it was taken over by BCSS two years ago. BC actually has a good group of players coming up over the next three years, where as we had quite a few down years in terms of volume of high level University guys after the mid 2010's. I believe St. George's beat every Alberta team they played a few weeks ago; all the Alberta teams lost in the Western Canada tournament and our u15,u17 and u18 Provincial teams beat Alberta this summer, so not sure they are a good comparison. Even the prep schools in Ontario are on a downslope currently. Almost half have folded since the creation of NPA league and OSBA. Most teams have 1 or two good players and a bunch of kids paying tuition to pay for those two. The exceptions being FOrt Erie and Orangeville, but even in comparison to past years the rosters aren't loaded with potential NBA guys, those guys have been going back to prep's in the states.
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Post by lol on Feb 16, 2023 21:22:06 GMT -8
The elephant in the room is that teachers who want to coach/run a program are few and far between. So you need dedicated community coaches to properly develop your program. But who wants to do all that for free? The only volunteers now are recent alumni and parents who stop coaching once their kids are done.
Continuity matters. So if you're a player with hoop dreams why would you go to your catchment school if they don't offer a serious program that aligns with your interests? It's just like students choosing to go to certain schools because they have a football team, or a great art program, or IB. There's nothing wrong with that.
So you want high schools to be able to keep their community talent around, the only way to solve this is to pay coaches. You would get a lot of competent people lining up to coach if this was the case. But are you ready to have that conversation about your tax dollars going towards that? And not just for basketball coaches either, coaches for all athletics would need to be paid.
If you're salty about sending your child to a school that can't compete with private schools, just do a little bit of research and send them to a public school that is serious about basketball and can compete. It's really that simple. In Vancouver for example, the four best public school programs (Kits, Churchill, King George, Tupper) are all run by community coaches who put a lot of time and effort in. Seek them out and figure out if those schools are right for your child.
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Post by A confused parent on Feb 18, 2023 15:18:17 GMT -8
Simple and plain...
Private schools should have their own league and their own zones. they don't follow the same rules as public schools they should not compete against public schools. I don't see how anyone can argue this even those parents of Private schools who are more immature then the kids at the school.
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Post by A confused parent on Feb 18, 2023 15:19:25 GMT -8
Lawyer up Private school parents... Lawyer up...you cant win without your money.
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Post by A confused parent on Feb 18, 2023 15:20:38 GMT -8
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Post by Coach on Feb 24, 2023 17:02:18 GMT -8
Such a lack of knowledge. Private schools win single A because they are all in urban areas and have access to the same club programs as public schools thus these kids are more skilled than urban kids who have no interest in Bball during the summer or outside of school. this is an urban vs rural issue not a public private. So sad this gets so emotional!! It is very sad that you look at certain private schools and put them all in same boat. Some cost $5000 and receive very little public funding. The public school in my area it cost $5000 to play basketball. Every private school in our area has a volunteer coach and no they don't have open boundaries. Everybody wants to spin all this to get there team to win. So sad! I agree with the person who said we are in need of coaches at our schools and for schools to put effort and $$ towards these import mentors. I believe schools are good because they have a dedicated coach who motivates young people to better themselves. in our city the schools that have a committed coach do well (public or private) and when that person leaves it all falls apart. Be sure to look harder before you make crazy statements.
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Post by coach guest on Mar 2, 2023 0:17:27 GMT -8
Idk who you are but I for a FACT know that private schools can get any player go to their schools as long as they pay since they also have boarding programs for out of area kids. understand that public schools do not have the ability to provide room and food for kids who come from other countries. and also if you think that public schools get volunteer coaches then also understand that none of the current saints and VC coaches are volunteering... they get PAID and they are also teachers at the school who are PAID extra to coach a team. Its people like you who are the reason nobody knows the facts because you spout off this nonsense like you know what you are talking about. club programs are the reason kids are good? the point isn't club programs its that VC and Saints appeal to these young athletes because they play games in Japan or Europe and they get all this nice gear at NO COST to the kid because he was given an "ATHLETIC SCHOLORSHIP" you don't understand that the public school teams have kids that cant afford to pay 600$ in fees because the school charges that much to play for the team. for some to NO gear all just for tournaments in Vancouver and NONE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY. The experience that private schools offer with the connections to very high class society is so much more appealing the any public school. so if a kid at grade 8 or 7 is some superstar kid then Private schools approach them and RECRUIT THEM TO PLAY FOR THEM. It happens every year and everybody pretends they don't or are to oblivious to notice it.
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